S1E04 : “Passion for People: from MedTech Marketing to Professional Coaching”, with Luca Allaria, Certified Professional Coach and Trainer

Get ready to be inspired by Luca Allaria's journey from a high-profile medtech marketer to becoming a certified professional coach. Luca's story is one of determination and passion for supporting others, finding solutions, and sharing his experience. He found joy in supporting others, and after experiencing the benefits of coaching himself, he decided to pursue it full-time. Since then, he has been coaching leaders and training MBA students at various Swiss universities. 

Luca emphasizes the importance of mentors, sponsors, champions, or advisors, who can help us evolve and get better at what we're doing. He believes that coaching is not about fixing people, but a tool to support them in achieving their dreams. He stresses the importance of the coachee having the desire to change, evolve, and grow. Coaching can be helpful in various situations, from uncovering resources to reaching big goals, or even when receiving mixed feedback.

He recommends that when choosing a coach, we should ask whether the coach has a coach or supervisor, as this demonstrates that the coach is self-reflective and can help us to be self-reflective too.

In addition, Luca shares valuable insights on intercultural relationships, highlighting the importance of not assuming anything, always asking, and being open to diversity. He also talks about his perception of the value of doing a MBA and what should be expected. 

So tune in to this episode and get ready to be inspired!

Please do not hesitate to share your feedback with us on our LinkedIn or Instagram pages and to give us a rating on Apple Podcast or Spotify. This is very important to help us grow The Marketing Consultation community!

Transcript

0:04

Hi everyone and welcome to the Marketing Consultation, the podcast for Healthcare Marketers by Healthcare Marketers. In the Marketing Consultation, Fabian and I are having bi weekly conversation with top leaders from the healthcare industry to uncover their key experience, insight and advice when it comes to career development, leadership, building, high performing team or marketing strategy and tools. Whether you're working in healthcare, marketing, or you are interested in this field, our goal is to help you answer the key question and challenges to spur you in your professional growth so then you can accelerate your career.  We have the pleasure to welcome Luca Laria. He's a Certified Professional Coach, ICFPCC, a Master coach in leadership and Communication, and a Trainer and facilitator in adult learning. With over 15 years of experience in the medtech industry, he has trained and led teams of specialists in marketing, training, education and sales across Europe, US and Canada. In addition of his coaching experience, Luca is creating with universities across Switzerland. He's supporting MBA and PhD student by designing and delivering workshop on Team Dynamics, Career Transition and communication. Luca is a biomedical engineer regulated from Polytechnico Milano and hold an executive MBA from IMD, we had a very insightful conversation. Lucca has shared a special about supporting the people to bring their true self into the what they do. Luca has also alighted to us the importance of critical people in his career, Mentor, coach, advisor and champions. We'll also discover the person behind the inspiring coach to a behind the scenes section. Hi, Luca. Hello Greg. Good afternoon. Hello Fabien. Good afternoon. It's a pleasure to welcome you in the marketing consultation. We had the pleasure to work together 10 years ago and also more recently also in your current activity. And I suggest to start our discussion of today then we are going back in the past when you had your first major shift in your career when you move from clinical specialist to training and education. And I'm really curious to understand what was your motivation to move away from a field where every day you were involved in Italy in complex cardiac procedure with patient to a more corporate role in the training and development in the headquarter. And also I would be curious about what was the most challenging aspect of this transition for you okay. So there was a couple of transitions in that. One. I was in Italy first, then moved to the Netherlands. Again, focus on clinical, a lot of operations and complexity, as you said, in terms of surgery, but also in terms of relationship in the sense that I was in contact with physicians of every country basically in our continent. And then I moved to the headquarter. As a trainer, because what I felt I was enjoying a lot was actually supporting others and finding solutions. And so at the time, I was speaking with two people who marked a lot of my career. One was Michael Hill and the second one was Pierre Bailey. And really in their conversation, it seems that, yeah, my ability to explain was quite recognized. Quite interested, so I started working for the headquarter as an ad hoc trainer in a topic that is very, I'd say, unique. I was teaching statistics for sales reps and then after that I got the chance to join the team really with the idea to support people, to find the new solutions to train people about my experience. But also given perspective, so that was a little bit idea. I think you mentioned something which is very interesting which is the whole of some people that have been helping you to go to the transition, but also to reflect and you mentioned Michael and Pierre and there are two very different profiles than what you are doing when you are a clinical specialist. Can you elaborate more and do you have any advice or audience also regarding the whole of sponsor, mentor, champion? Whatever you want to call them, yes. For me, mentors are essentials in career. Whatever career you're looking for, having someone who is inspiring you, who is challenging you, and who is able to put like a mirror in front of your face and say what you're really good at. And for me, the first one was Michael Hill again was my Director at the time, and it was he had this ability to not only see me what I was good, but also to challenge me to the next step. And so mentorship has this unique role to say, hey, my experience tells me that what do you think? And this simple question can help people to evolve, can help people to get better at what they're doing. I think it's quite interesting also what you mentioned and what I oversimplify by transition from the field to a training in the development role. You went also to some geographical transition moving from Italy to Netherlands with at that time your manager was from US after moving to Switzerland, having also a manager from another nationality. Anything you want to share with us then could be a good insight for our audience. What I learn is never assume and when we I remember the first time I use a flight simulator with you Greg, during the launch of a product and at the time a pilot said, you guys remember when we fly we should never assume and I think in business is the same and in intercultural relationship is the same. I'll give you an example when I was. When I arrived in the Netherlands, I remember I was over the phone and then replying in e-mail and then one of my colleague entered the office and I said come on in and we can talk. And then I received the feedback. Look, never do this again because that's absolutely inappropriate. Well for me was absolutely normal doing three things at the same time with people. So never assume what is okay and just simply ask. And the second thing I learned is. The richness that is in this relationship, there is a very good book. It's called the It's a book, sorry, it's a book about innovation. It's called the Medicia fact. And at that moment it says innovation happens in intersections. So when we put people from different cultures, different perspectives together is when the real ideas comes in. And that's what I learned in my experience really working with multiple cultures, with people with different profiles, different personalities, is there innovation, creativity, also happiness happens. So it's really what this spark is, lighted up and fired in business and in human relationship. So we all aspire to get to have that spark one day and I guess it has been very important for you in all your transitions. So we talked about your transition from the field role to a headquarter or regional training and development role, but I did not stop there. You also went from being the successful trainer to then taking on various marketing roles. So could you share with us how you prepared yourself if you had a new preparation to begin your new marketing career? Yeah, so that was again a matter of people. And at the time there was the lead of the department and adverse and very respected global marketeers, Hank Van Senthorp and discussing with them. That there was a big change in the company and yeah, they had the opportunity to say okay, let's go to marketing. And I knew the product, I knew the customers, but they didn't know a lot about marketing. And there was these two individuals that really challenged me and gave me the strength to move forward. And then I decided to prepare a little bit more systematically. I love learning and studying. So I decided to gather an executive MBA from IMD Lausanne really to give me the foundation of marketing, of strategy, finance and also leadership. And so, yes, there was again an encounter again, people that challenge you and challenge me and they give me trust. But also a lot of hard work to compensate for what was not there. thanks Luke. And you know one thing, a question which is coming often to each of us, but also then we are getting from our junior marketer. It's exactly what you described. It's about MBA or executive MBA and to see what would be a good timing in the career to do what type of MBA. And any advice that you could share either or your own experience or what you've been learning? Also after okay. So a couple of observations on what I believe in MBA is useful for. MBA is useful in different levels. The first level is knowledge, giving you the knowledge of marketing, of strategy, finance and leadership. The second level is on the human being level. That means ability to interrelate with people coming from a different background, with different aspiration, different cultures. And the third level is on the personal level, is putting yourself in a journey because you're stretched in in your knowledge, you're stretching your timing, you're stretching in how to to do things differently. The timing for an MBA, it depends. You can do it at the beginning of your career, let's say after four or five years. And in this case I would recommend a full time MBA where you can have an immersive experience and really focus on the starting I did later on in my career. I had already 10 years of experience of work and I decided to do an executive MBA. I was one of the youngest one at the time. The challenge there for me was to learn something new, but also to operate. And work in a class with people with a very high level directors, vice president, sea level people in my class. And that's what a lot of the learning came from. What I learn also is one thing. MBA is like a glazing on a cake. Your experience, your knowledge, your personality is the cake is what people will quote, UN quote, buy and hire for. The MBA, whatever type of MBA it is, is a glazing is what makes a little bit the angles that are not perfect, things that are not fully there, more complete and more appropriate. However, especially to the young people, I always say if you believe that you do an MBA and the next day you will have the role of a director, it is not the way it works. The cake is not solid enough. The MBA will help you to accelerate your career. So yeah, you will reach there maybe faster, but exiting a full time MBA you will gather maybe a management experience and it's great and then you will develop higher up, maybe faster. For an executive MBA, very often the cake is already quite substantial, so the glazing make this cake shinier and tastier so you can cover more. Roles and the ability to interact with different department changes. I apologize if my answers are too long. You give me a sign. You know, I'm Italian originally, so I love to talk. It's perfect. And we can also see, you know, the passion for food, which is, you know, connected to the way you are in a very simple way. The MBA. One more clarification question on the MBA units, 3 letters than everybody's using. But of course there's a lot of different MBA. Can you share with us or you select it? The type of MBA you wanted to do the business schools and the program also okay for me. So again, because I was quite advanced in my career, 10 years is let's say the first third of the career was done. I decided for an executive MBA now about the type of program for me was key to have an international program where the vast majority of countries were represented. And therefore I excluded MBA in the US because a lot of times are focused more on Anglo-Saxon culture, not always, but a lot. And then the other point for me was having an MBA with a strong leadership stream, not only the three pillars, the typical pillars, finance, marketing and strategy, but a strong leadership. Stream today the majority of international schools offer that at the time was not really the case. And so doing a lot of research, IMD seems the one satisfying my needs the most in terms of leadership Stream and so I decided to go there. Thanks for sharing Luca and I. Did love the analogy with the cake, Very telling and I totally agree with you on that. Let's move forward to maybe the present now. So you're currently a certified professional coach and trainer. You coach leaders and individual contributors and you also train MBA students at various Swiss universities and you support them in their career transitions. So our question that we're very interested in because that was a big jump from. The corporate environment to being your own boss and establishing your own coaching business. So could you elaborate on why and how you moved away from your high profile marketing career in the corporate environment to what you do today? So the first time across the coach, a real coach. It was in my time at MBA, at IMD, and that was inspiring to me. The way this person challenged me, made me think differently without telling me what to do for me was extremely inspiring. So yeah, there was a little bit of wondering what to be the next. Magic, those kind of profession could do. But of course, you know, I had enough challenges in my marketing role. I had a fantastic team to work with. So there was no kind of push to do that. And then in 2017, the company I was working for went through a major restructuring. I was impacted by the restructure and I went to my coach really to understand what to do. And I remember at the time he said, look, it seems that from what I'm hearing, what is passionate to you is people and supporting people other physically, other morally, other psychologically. And he asked me the question, what does I tell you? I said maybe I need to explore coaching was my answer. So that's what I did. I subscribed to IDC Institute, de Kushinga Jenette and start my coaching training. I found in the meantime a new job as a say as a marketing director and then I continue my training as a coach, getting my hours done to get certified and more and more the passion for this job was present and also I see positive feedback in my colleagues and some people I was coaching for my certification coming from different industries and really this. Inner satisfaction to see people finding their own solutions in me just being. I love metaphor. I believe people are like a well full of water, but very often they don't see the water. As a coach, what I enjoyed a lot was helping them to have a longer cord so they could plunge in the water and take the water they needed, but they had already the water inside. So that was my reflection And then in 2018 again following another restructure in the company was was working for at the time that the kind of the, the energy of this new role was was more and more present And so I decided okay, let's try if the destiny will say yes it it's clear, I will see and actually it was quite fast because in six months basically I was up and running so. And for me, that was a sign that I was on the right path. And training goes along. I've been training for corporations, I've been training in sales, I was supporting university. The PhD program is called Transverse program here in Swiss homeland. It's a passion and a profession and went well together. So I decided to merge the two. And then of course I'm a marketeer at heart, so time to time I support also companies in doing this. So it's a little bit of a mixture and I really enjoy. But at the center is also the person what they wanna do, how they want to evolve. And I like to see me as just a little tool to have them to put their thing in the universe. We can definitely feel the passion that you have for your job, for others and it's really inspiring to see how you've been able to uncover this passion and and and to follow it. So you mentioned that before being a coach you were a coachee at some point, yes. And I, I I'm really interested in knowing if you have any advice on if anyone in our environment, in industry at any level should get a coach or what is the good time to get some coaching. Okay. So coaching is really helpful in general to three things. One, uncover resources when we are stuck, when we don't know what to do, we are in confusion. Second, when we have a big project and we see, you know, we see the direction, but we have no idea how to reach that target. And the third one is when. We believe we are doing well, but the feedback we received, they are kind of a mixed bag. And so how to look at things from a different perspective and that's what helped me as a coachee in my reflection in my interaction with others and that's what is helping me as a coach today. And by the way, today I'm also coachee. As a coach, I have my coach, I have my supervisor and I always recommend people. When you choose a coach the first question you ask is do you have a coach or do you have a supervisor? If the answer is no, run away because if as a coach we are not self reflective, we cannot help people to be self reflective. And then another thing I would recommend is if you consider coaching as fixing a problem, maybe it's not the right tool. We don't fix people, we support people. Is different. So the person has to have the desire to change, evolve, do better, realize their dreams. But if somebody else say you know Luca, you should do this and this and this do differently. Well, maybe training or mentoring consulting are more appropriate. What you clarify, it's really critical. I know it's mentoring, coaching, training, it's and showing all different needs. And it's really so inspiring to see across your career and what you are doing today with people. It's really linked to endless learning and curiosity and curiosity. Not me about content, not about art skill, but especially about people. And also going to knowing yourself was probably something helping you across the journey. I would like to switch to another angle and every day you have assisting people in realizing the potential. In the first during the grow development and seeing the team performance at all level, you know it's inspiring to see. Then you are doing that with students, with Manager, Director, Vice President, C St. and the way you describe the same passion is there whoever is in front of you. And can you provide us more information on the primary topic than you cover while working with your clients, so let's say with students and young professionals. Typically is the the the main topic is really clarifying where I want to go. What is my future, am I on the right path where I want to be in when I will grow up quote UN quote when we go towards Vice President and sea levels the the topic are quite different goes from strategy to having a spare partner. I realized there is a lot of quote UN quote loneliness up there because of course due to company constraints that cannot share a lot with a lot of people and sometimes it is difficult to to express also doubts, desire, reflections in an open and in a safe environment. And that's where typically we focus our conversation on cross the board. There is, there are communication, it's always a big topic. And 2nd is making an impact. And with making an impact has multiple definition according to multiple people. But let's say the ticket goes under this big umbrella of doing something for me, from my team, from my company, from my customers that change positively their experience, their life. Their status. It's interesting to see that you have multiple life in one life. When you see the different activities and you are doing still today with different type of activity, different type of customer. A lot of people in the corporate world are thinking, oh I will go, I'll become independent like this are my own boss and I can decide what I do. Can you elaborate on that and tell us more about the journey over the last five years when you decide to jump? On the other side of the Cliff, create and run your own business. Yeah. So independency has a lot of strengths. That means you can kind of manage your agenda. If there's a specific topic you're interested in, you focus on that topic, and at the same time, you are not the owner of your agenda. You know your clients are and the needs of the market. Sometimes there is there are more requests and sometimes than there are way less requests. So the idea is how to balance all of debts. Also another learning I had was I was used to have a steady salary income at the end of the month. That is not happening. You know, today I'm in average situation. I collaborate in a say under a contract with the University of Sangalen for a percentage of my time. The rest is my own activity and still there is a big variation. So if you have family responsibilities, if you want to build maybe house or something, you need to take care of this and handling the anxiety. Of saying who this month I invoice the 260 franc, what is happening next month? And really it's just a matter of thinking more in the long term, say look at the year versus at the month, which is interesting because what we say in marketing is that we need to anticipate the future and making sure that what we say today as an impact today, tomorrow and the day after tomorrow, well-being in independence pretty much like this. So I was actually put in a test of fire if what we do and what we say is really working and it seems so. So that's that's my take. I don't know if you have any other. Clarifying question or any specific elements on this? No, just wanted to add, when you were when we were chit chatting before the recording, you mentioned that actually when you work in roles like we do with Greg and I, we have one boss and we know that boss. We know his expectations more or less. We try to meet the expectations. But actually going independent in a coaching role, you get multiple bosses and you were saying that's actually a challenge because you get as many expectations as bosses. So that's right. That's right. And the important is adopting and feeling that we can work that I can work with that person, right. So because then there is a lot of expectations, there's a lot of different styles, maybe there are some situations where individuals and teams need and in a couple of days some support. So how to accommodate that knowing that you have other. Teams and other individuals to accommodate as well. So that's a little bit the challenge and the beauty of it is also saying okay can I really work with this person. That's why as a coach I always have a one-on-one before to see. We call it chemistry meeting to see if we can work together and goes both way. Goes from the Kochi perspective, can they work with me and goes in my perspective can I work with them and once we have. Establish this alliance is then we are ready to go because we know that we can trust each other. We know that the environment will be saved, the respect will be there, but that will be a demand, right. So it's end end instead of or or but still it's a challenge and a joy at the same time. So look at last question for you before we move to more personal questions and following on the metaphor of the. Baking. So that would be really our cherry on the cake. What we would like to ask you with Greg is you have any best kept secrets that you have acquired on your own marketer journey that you are now leveraging while coaching others. Do you have some and could you please share with us and our audience? So I have a couple. The first one is 1. Remember, big changes never happened alone. So find your allies. Find the people that can trust you, support you, Challenge you with benevolence, sincerity, and knowledge. I mentioned few people in our conversation. I would need to mention many, many more, but those people are the one that really stretch, help and support. The second learning I had is. Very often we tend to see ourself like in a box. Oh, I'm a marketeer, wonderful job. I'm a sales, I am legal, I am regulatory, I am different things. Well, be mindful to mixing identity and what we do. What we do is a great experience and added value for others, for others, but it's not necessarily who we are. So identifying and understanding who we are and trying to bring who you are and what we do is that what makes the magic is really combining and enriching the doing and the being. And the third element I learn is that what we focus our attention growth is a principle coming from. Another person who changed a lot in my life is called Anclan C, author of Appreciative Coaching. And this principle says basically that where we focus our attention on grows. So if I focus my attention on problems and challenges, the problems and the challenges somehow will grow. If I focus my attention on what I want to be, Acknowledging the challenges is not denying the challenges, but it's. Kind of acknowledging the challenge and then I go over the challenges and focus my attention in what I want to be, what is giving me joy. Then the perspective change and it's easier. Also the challenges become easier because we see the bigger picture. We see our goal, the integration being and doing. It's easier. The identification of allies, it's easier because they are the one that are supporting us in our direction, not in the problem, but in the direction. So those are the three learning that I had. Thanks for sharing. That's really appreciated. Our conversation has been full of advice and insights which I'm sure are going to trigger a lot of thinking amongst Greg, myself and our audience. So we have a little tradition in the marketing consultation and we like to learn more about our speakers and go behind the scenes a little bit. So we have a few questions for you that we hope you will be feel comfortable answering. The first thing we would like to know. So you see we see you here as a fully accomplished adult, but how was the little look at how were you as a child? I was an interesting mixture between. Very calm and very serious child with some moment of craziness and some moment of high philosophical approach. I remember once we were at the at the seaside with my parents and my brother and we were taking an ice cream and then the first things I did was to offer my ice cream to my family and the lady said hey, but this is your ice cream. And I I replied back and I said yes, but there's no joy without sharing. Wow. And I was four, right. And then you know I was screaming to have the new new car toy because I was a passionate and I am passionate about cars. So you know screaming and making a scene you see that's a little bit like my extremes all there and always liking people and food that's was the also the little look at that's why. I'm always in shape. Round is a shape. Thanks for sharing about you as a child. Is there any book that has impacted you professionally or privately that you would like to recommend to our audience so professionally? I mentioned one. It's called The Medici Effect. It's a book about innovation. The second one is a book from an IMD professor. Phil Rosenweig is called The Halle Effect. It's a book about strategy and how we can be influenced by the results rather than by the process and hanging up there and very interesting book. Personally, I would recommend Taming Your Gremlin. It's a book about our saboteurs and our little voices that say. You know you cannot do this. You never been doing that. And you know in marketing sometimes we are focused about the impossible that needs to be made possible. But we have all our voices in the head and I think that book is really helpful to get to increase our self aware awareness. And then another one is called Appreciative Coaching. It's a book a little bit technical, maybe more, but I think it's describing. Pretty well. How we can be acknowledging the challenges, the difficulties, sometimes the the hard times we have and at the same time looking at the different perspective, you know how we can reinterpret the past, how we can focus on what to make us growth and also how how we speak and think can influence what we do. So a few books, very interesting. There are many, many more. But yeah, I will limit myself to those. 4/4 is already great. Thanks Lucia. So with your job, you have, I think sometimes an unpredictable schedule or you have to have very long days to satisfy the expectations of your clients. Can you tell us, can you share how you manage your energy levels? Well, if I would have the the perfect solution, I would love to know. I don't. So if you have one, I'm taking it at the moment. It's really goes back day by day. Again. I receive a lot of energy from the people I have around me, my family and my friends who are supporting and sustaining me. Again, we cannot change alone. I receive energy from. Doing some activities, I do less sports than before due to some physical conditions, but that's also an important way for me to relax. And the other thing is nature and contact with nature. So those are the three things that can help me to my energy level. But I'm a human being as everybody, so there are days where I say my goodness, I'm so tired and then I need to still keep going and. And then there are some days where I can manage better. So we are in a journey and I am in a journey too. We are too. So you mentioned about cake before, but do you prefer cooking or baking? Definitely baking. I love Patisli and everything that is related to pastry because it's a mixture between high engineering. I'm an engineer by training, so we need to be precise. There's a lot of chemistry in it. And at the same time, there's a lot of creativity because the challenge is always saying, okay, what do I have available today and what I can create that is tasty and appealing to the eyes. So sometimes with very good results, sometimes with orifying results, and that's Okay. We are in a journey and for me it's really relaxing as well. So I did a few baking class. Both in Italy, in France, because we have two very different ways of Dupai 3 and a lot both. So yeah, so that's what I like. It's learning, it's precise and it's creative at the same time. So I'm curious, what's your signature patisserie? So my favorite dessert is Tiramisu. Obviously we expected. But I do everything. Yeah, we're talking. We're talking now we're talking. So, but I do everything from scratch, from the cookies to the cream to everything is done from scratch. And then I had a little signature from my mom that is a little variation to the tradition, but that I will not share here. But I will invite you for a slice very soon. This is noted on our side. Absolutely. Italy or Switzerland, that's a big fight and therefore I would say the Netherlands. Okay, okay. Interesting answer. Final question. Coach or coachee, that's even harder. I cannot be a coach without being a coachee. And therefore, for this reason, I say coach. Because to be a good coach, I have to be a coaching. I need to explore myself, to help others, to explore themselves. And I love coaching because it's a never ending field of studying, because the human being is so complex and so beautiful, so amazing that it's difficult to oh, I did this course, I'm done. Let's keep going. Thanks Luca for this very inspiring when it's so refreshing discussion. It's not only about the professional side of you, it was very interesting also to get some insight from the person you are behind, not only the coach, but the marketer and for the audience and would like to be in contact with Luca, Feel free to reach to him to the. LinkedIn profile of Luca and Luca would like to thank both of us. Would like to thank you for the time and also for the discussion, expertise and all the great insight from your side. Thanks Luca. Thank you Luca, Thank you for being thank you Greg and thank you to all the people who are listening to this. And that brings us to the end of today's episode. We hope you found this discussion informative and insightful. We encourage you to continue the conversation and stay connected with us on LinkedIn and Instagram at the Marketing Consultation. If you have any questions or topics that you would like us to cover in future episodes, please do not hesitate to reach out. We need your help to grow the marketing consultation community and have more healthcare marketers benefit from the experience and advice of our speakers. Please feel free to share with your network and to give us a five star rating on Apple Podcast. This is super important to increase our visibility. Thank you again for listening and we look forward to bringing you more insights and ideas from top healthcare leaders in our next episode.