S2E02: “Cultivating a Growth Mindset”, with Ghada Farah, SVP Interventional Systems, EMEA at Terumo Europe

In the latest episode of The Marketing Consultation, we are thrilled to host Ghada Farah, Senior Vice President, Interventional Systems EMEA at Terumo Europe. Ghada is a visionary leader who has seamlessly blended a customer-centric approach with transformative leadership strategies. Ghada's journey is a testament to the power of adaptability, resilience, and a deep understanding of the ever-evolving business landscape.

Ghada passionately delves into the essence of leadership, emphasizing the pivotal role of empowerment and growth mindset in driving organizational success. She believes that a structured and organized approach can not only streamline operations but also foster a culture of innovation and growth. 

Navigating the delicate balance between personal and professional lives, Ghada shares candid anecdotes from her life. She speaks of her childhood influences, particularly her grandmother, whose strong spirit and values have been a guiding force in her leadership journey. Ghada's insights into the world of technology, especially her perspective on the "AI dilemma," offer listeners a glimpse into the future of tech and its profound impact on businesses.

Dwelling on leadership styles, Ghada underscores the inverted pyramid approach, emphasizing the significance of aligning with one's team and prioritizing customer needs. Her stories of family councils, especially during challenging wartime scenarios, resonate with the essence of inclusive leadership. These tales, inspired by her father's guidance, highlight the importance of unity, understanding, and the collective strength of diverse voices.

In this episode, Ghada's profound insights and reflections serve as a beacon for aspiring leaders, emphasizing the importance of adaptability, customer-centricity, and unwavering commitment to one's values. Join us on this enlightening journey with Ghada, as we uncover the layers of leadership, challenges, successes, and the road ahead.

Please do not hesitate to share your feedback with us on our LinkedIn or Instagram pages and to give us a rating on iTunes. This is very important to help us grow The Marketing Consultation community...   

Transcript

0:04

Hi everyone and welcome to the Marketing Consultation, the podcast for Healthcare Marketers by Healthcare Marketers. In the marketing consultation, Greg and I are having biweekly conversations with top leaders from the healthcare industry to uncover the key experience, insights and advice when it comes to carry on development, leadership and building high performing teams or marketing strategy and innovation. Whether you work in healthcare, marketing or are interested in this field, our goal is to help answer your key questions and challenges and support you in your professional growth so that you can accelerate your career and stay ahead of the curve. In today's episode, we are honored to welcome Gaddafara SVP, Terrimo Europe. She's a visionary leader with known for a transformative approach to leadership. And her commitment to a customer centric mindset. Gedda's leadership journey is a master class in adaptability, empowerment and the art of navigating complex business environment. To our conversation, Gedda deep dive into the core principle and the shape or leadership style. She speaks passionately about the essence of empowerment in driving organizational success and the pivotal role of a structural approach in fostering innovation, drawing from her rich experience. She put the light on the challenge and rewards of leading in today's rapidly evolving world. What truly set this episode apart is yet a commit reflection on her personal leadership journey. From the invaluable lesson she learned from her grandmother to her insight into inclusive leadership. All of that inspired by family council during challenging time when she was a child. Her there of her fresh perspective on leading with authenticity and purpose. Good morning, Hada, and thank you so much for being with us this morning. Good morning, Fabian. It's such a pleasure to be able to see you and Greg again having worked together in the past. It's a real pleasure to be able to discuss with you today. Thank you. I must say this is this episode is a little bit special for me because we know each other quite well and I had the privilege to work under your direct leadership for several years and you have been during these years and beyond a huge source of inspiration, learning and also support for me. So I just wanted to take that opportunity to also thank you publicly for that. So I'm gonna stop here because I know you're very humble and modest and I don't want to embarrass you. It was a privilege to be to have you in my team for that's the only thing I will say. Thank you, Okay. So I'm gonna go to our first question for today. So Hada, you've worked in both developed and emerging markets across Europe, the Middle East and Africa. So in this experience, what are some of the biggest challenges you've faced in navigating these different markets culture and how have you overcome them? It's a very good question and I think we spend a lot of time trying to answer it and I continuously try to answer it in different ways. But we should start by the fact that Healthcare is a focus across all those markets. So at the end of the day, the question we're trying to answer is always the same. We want to bring access to quality care to more patients. And working in developed and emerging markets can however, be very different. It starts with infrastructure and resources. Sometimes infrastructure is not at the same level in the different countries. In developed and emerging markets, access to care is completely different. One very important factor that we all work on is healthcare financing and who are the stakeholders and this in developed market is completely different and more organized and in emerging markets can be very different even country to country and understanding who those stakeholders are can be very different. I can talk to many other factors that are different in developed and emerging markets. We can even think about the disease patterns, epidemiology, the regulatory environment is completely different technological advancements here and there can be different human resources. A lot is is to be considered in different ways, but very importantly as well. Volatility of emerging markets, the political unrest, the economic challenges can be completely different and of course compliance needs to be monitored very closely. So in a go to market all of this needs to be considered in a different way. This being said, it always ends up being about designing this go to market plan with the right stakeholders that applies to the current or future infrastructure and will lead to value creation. So taking all the differences into account, that remains similar. Regarding what you described both for the emerging market and the developed market, something which is common and you've been leading a lot of transformation in your careers, can you elaborate a little bit more about what's driving the success? What are the contributing factor for it? Sure. Thanks Greg. The pace of change is today extremely fast. Socioeconomics, politics are evolving rapidly and sometimes unexpectedly like we've all seen. So the society as a result is changing. The needs of our customers are changing and we need to adapt in the most efficient manner so we are able to answer those new needs or even anticipate as much as possible. So I think the need for transformation is clear, but it's not always obvious to everyone. And in every transformation the most important thing is to have a clear vision and to align the whole organization with it. This requires to be very inclusive in designing the solution among multiple stakeholders, whether internally or externally. And once designed, we need to get strong commitment from the team in implementing it. So it goes back to the fact that no one feels comfortable with change no matter what. So the secret of the recipe is understanding the implications of the change for each stakeholder and managing their journey whilst communicating relentlessly. And it's always easier said than done. Earlier in my career, transformation was done every 10 years and one could continue working with the new business model, the new operating model for the next 10 years. But in the current environment, our transformations are continuous, they are overlapping and there is a general tiredness of this constant change. So engaging and motivating team members has become even more difficult than before and also more important than before. So it starts with recognizing this. When we recognize this, it's already a first step towards success. Then I always use empathy and genuine desire to bring value for all stakeholders. When we look at our stakeholders, patients, customers, healthcare systems partners, employees and I keep learning when it comes to communication. When we talk about transformation, there is no such thing as over communicating. I've realized multiple times how the intention did not translate at all to the organization, but at the end, perception is reality. So it's on the leadership to communicate clearly and frequently with continuous listening and to address the main pain points or the main points of interest as they emerge. Also, you all heard the code, culture eats strategy for breakfast. So no matter what the strategy is, if the company culture is not set to implement it, it won't happen. This means that one needs the majority of employees and the managers to deal with pressure as a group to be able to respond creatively and positively to the transformation, not seeing it purely as a threat and overcoming their initial natural response of fear, fight, flight. So the glue of all of this is core values, meaning that the company acts with fairness towards the employees and that all employees treat each other and their clients with the respect, integrity and care that they deserve. When I said all of this, when companies decide to transform, they usually overlook two factors. One is time some somehow it's too late when we decide to transform because we don't factor enough how long it would take us to implement the transformation. So we already reach a point when we start where investments become scarce. The other thing we overlook is the current state and the desired state and how both of them will overlap. And we require resources and needs for investments that will overlap. So being able to invest sufficiently where growth remains the where growth is, remains the most difficult challenge in the transformation. Because of those two factors, it's already too late and we will have to overlap the current state and the desired state. So HADA, when we worked together, we worked in the cardiac rhythm management business of Medtronic, which is the core and largest business of the company. So you've led businesses of over 1 billion in revenue which is huge. What are some of the key strategies and tactics that you have used to manage this large scale operations but also teams, Thanks for the question from Dan. Look, when leading businesses of a large size, the fundamentals remain the same, Understanding the business, the customers, the environment and the differentiated value that we provide to the different stakeholders. Of course, building high performing teams and operating in a healthy culture, creating the right solutions and offering to our customers. This all remains the same. However, working in a large corporate company, when compared to SM E's, the expectations can be slightly different. For the large business, clients will expect very high quality standards. They will expect uninterrupted best in class service and solutions. And the same is true from employees. You always hear them saying this was a school. It also talks to their expectations. What is extremely important is the same sense of fairness. It becomes more important at all levels. Customers want to be treated fairly, but also team members want to be treated fairly and understanding this needs to be part of any decision making. This is not said and discussed, but this is always there and it changes the way the whole business is looked at. So it implies that large businesses require best in class structure and processes so that we're able to deliver best in class customer and patient experience living up to the requirements of quality standards but also of fairness that is there. And therefore a very strong collaboration with HR is essential so that we're able to retain higher promote and develop employees. Another element that may be more difficult in the large businesses is to keep the right level of creativity and resourcing while keeping the right processes in place. So no process will need to chaos and this cannot be afforded in a large organization. But of course too many processes will kill the creativity and lead to 0 innovation. So that's why promoting very strongly growth mindset, the need to experiment, valuing progress, learning from others is extremely important in very large organizations and I am a strong advocate of growth mindset. So I think these are some of the things to keep in mind while looking at larger businesses. Hadda, you mentioned the criticality of having strong processes in the large scale organization, but at the same time the challenge of not hindering agility, fast decision making and creativity. Is there any concrete tactics advice that you could share around how to balance this processes, but at the same time this need for fast moving pace and agility? Yeah, I think it's extremely important that the agility and entrepreneurship within the employees remains in their mind at all times. So I talked about growth mindset and for me it's really about making sure that growth mindset is advertised across the company and everyone realizes that the company does allow experimentation values progress on those. Experimentation allows failing and failing fast. So as long as growth mindset is a culture within the organization, this would truly allow large organization to continue to experiment and to bring in creativity and innovation. So in your team at Tehumo, how do you instill this growth mindset? Is it something that you talk about in meetings, do you share best practices or how do you do it? Yeah. At Terumo we've done a full program where we are truly launching growth mindset. So all leadership talk about growth mindset. We have newsletter that goes in every month. We have also sometimes awards for failing fast as long as the learnings are there of course. And accordingly, this is becoming a natural language for everyone and it remains always in the mind of each and every employee as they work every day. I would like to switch to another area which is also one of your, you know, core value, but also your your strengths and recognized by everybody. I've been working with you not only by Fab and myself, but also across the different organization, different geography, which is your leadership style and you believe a lot about the servant leadership. And if you can share in a few elements and words or the best kept secret about it, it's something which is, which is impressive and a lot of people talk about it. But in your case, you really leave that. And you managed to put that in across all your organization and any basic secret that you can share with us? Sure. Thank you very much, Greg. It's very humbling. Second, I want to say, yeah, the secrets here are really to put customers always 1st and customer facing team members as well to come first at the top of the pyramid at the end leadership is at the bottom of this pyramid. Leadership is here to just enable, empower the team and the way I put this in place is that I always look at the market as being the place where we should be and the teams to be in the market. We have today in our goals and objectives at Theroma something we call Gamba. Gamba in Japanese means the place where things happen, so the market actually. And we've put goals and objectives for each and everyone of the team members around Kemba. So this means that all team members keep the focus on the markets, visit their customers, continuously learn and anticipate their needs with them. And of course I try to lead by example. So I always take the opportunity of Congress's country visits to meet with customers, to meet with customer facing employees, whether sales, marketing, customer service, any customer facing employee. Latest example is at the kickoff where we were with 400 people and I made the time for two hours to meet an important customer as I knew I wouldn't have the opportunity to meet with him otherwise. And it was highly appreciated both by the customer and by my team. And during COVID times, I was truly inspired by everything our stage teams did in times of disruption. They went, they served their customers, they served their patients. Sometimes they weren't sure about their own health. While doing this, they ensured the best possible supply while so many products were in back order with the global supply chain disruption. So I had a town hall where they were the main actors, not the leadership team, the commercial team, the customer service team from the different countries. They shared how they were living through this, how they were living through those challenging times, what were their pain points, what were their learnings, what were their need for support. So I think the secret recipe is truly to be about the customer, to be about the customer facing teams and to make sure that we are there for them. And hopefully that by itself then creates emulation and exponential exponential application of the same type of servant leadership. And putting your patient customer, customer facing team extended one at the center is really critical and you describe one way which is about leading by example by the way you are doing it. I'm curious about when you're taking a new organization, a new team which has not been working that way in the past, there's some team then it's a top down approach. Here you are describing the inverted parameter and then. And I'm curious about all you're changing or you're adapting or bringing this new style, which for some organization could be challenging, even if it's making perfect sense. Yeah, it could be challenging indeed when an organization has doesn't have this mindset and it's much more top down. But at the end, I think it's very often this is left to the leadership and leadership at any level. So leadership not just at the top. So in early career times where I've been in more top down types of settings and I was in leadership leading my team, I never found it difficult to put in place this type of organization because of the fact that at the end being with the customers and being customer centric will always happen and no one at the top will tell you not to meet your customers. It will just become more difficult. It will drain more energy. It will be more lengthy in terms of how you spend your time and resource and energy and how your team spends time and resource and energy. So it's much more about being In Sync with the team rather than having to look at it, whether top down or bottom up, it's being In Sync with the team as to is this the right thing to do? Are we really patient centric and putting our customers 1st And if this is seen as the right thing to do, then it always happens. So Hada you really highlight the importance of a customer centric mindset for a leader? What other skills and key qualities you think are essential for leaders to succeed in today's fast-paced business environment? And do you have any advice for aspiring leaders on how to make a positive impact on their teams and organizations? Thanks for the question, Fabian. I think all leaders today are having a lot of difficulties because of all those changes that are happening to all of us. We're looking at some changes and then we get new ones and we have to juggle with the new ones because we can't just leave them, leave them there. So agility has always been an important requirement for leaders, but today it takes a new meaning. The ability to compute all the environmental changes fast, to rapidly identify some of the micro trends that will become critical to the businesses, whether opportunities or challenges, and to rally resources around them. So first is to be very agile in their minds and in their acts. Second, empathy. Empathy becomes also very important. The ability to create trust in an environment of change and to embark the teams with them and becomes even more difficult. And it only holds true if they show genuine interest in their teams and customers. A third thing that's very important is for them to build high performance but also very collaborative teams and empower them. And if they don't, then it's always about people and the power of many. So realizing plans won't happen. So I would really also put the focus there. Another focus is on continuous performance. We always talk about defining what success looks like in our current times. And with all the changes, we sometimes have to change the definition of what success looks like. And as leaders, this means aligning the executive leadership to those changes in what success looks like and then working with the whole team as to this new success and how do we get there, And continuing to adapt when we see rapid change on this definition of success. And I think last but not least, Fabian is courage. Courage to take decisions in a difficult environment. Courage to take decisions without knowing all the answers with ambiguity. Courage to take decisions when it becomes more complex and it's volatile and uncertain. And to change organizations and bring in new competence as needed while allowing teams to experiment and fail. And also courage to continue in a specific direction in the face of in adversity. So I think I'd like to finish with this. Word is truly about courage nowadays for the leaders to be able to bring their mark to organizations. Yeah, I fully agree with the importance of courage and I I I see that every day. I just wanted to come back on the notion of empowerment. We recently had a discussion in our leadership team about what does it actually mean to have empowered teams and how do we measure in the way the level of empowerment. Could you share some your thoughts around how you define empowerment? And maybe how do you assess if your teams are truly empowered at table? We're right now putting in place programs for all our teams at Terumo for to to define or to bring together what a leader of today should look like. And we're spending time defining together how to empower teams and what does it mean and how do we get to the right metrics around empowerment as well. So we started by just bringing in inspiring speakers about empowerment and I think we're still at this early stage of learning and listening. And then we're gonna rally around our learnings and then define next steps around empowering teams. I think for now every manager across the organization is trying to allow enough autonomy to their teams and give them the right trust. But and to put a lot in their hands as to how they would like to see things going forward. Being able to Co shape, being able to build themselves and it's all part of empowerment, but we're all doing it in different ways and we're trying to bring more a more complete definition to empowerment and a more complete way of operating for all of us that would then move the organization in a much faster, faster way and more organized way. I would like to come back regarding one of your core strengths, core value and role model, and I know that you don't like what I'm saying that, but I really. Minute, and I know that it's not only me, it's Fabian and a lot of people. It's about your commitment for for diversity and equity and inclusion. And you start that a lot, long time ago, a lot before it became the focus area over the last years. We know each other for 15 years and it was already super clear. And it's not only linked to your multicultural background, but also really the way you articulate it and the way you demonstrate it. And I'm super curious, how do you create that? That environment, that culture, we need to make sure it's going across the organization, not staying on a PowerPoint slide, but really it's deeply engraved. And every organization you've been leading when you have been moving to your next role, that was super clear, super visible. And it's not only a legacy but something that each of us can learn and just curious about it. Thank you for the question, Greg. Again very humbling. I will maybe not be able to answer anymore. I'm feeling emotional. But look, thank you very much for, for the question. The way you put it, I think few things. I will start with the fact that you know things have started for me with the real fascination around geographies, culture and how differences are across the world. There's also a part of it that's linked to my background as I've seen a lot of of divergence in opinions living through the war in Lebanon, late 70s, where difference in religions, difference in ways of thinking have led to way too much waste and hatred. And it got me getting out of it. Someone who truly believes in diversity at the core and in hating. And that's, you know, extremism in itself, but hating hated and hating this, lack of acceptance of diversity and this this then led to true fascination. And I, you know, like all of you, have traveled to many countries. I counted repeatedly over 55 countries because I was really hungry to learn the business, business, the, the people, the societal differences. So, so this was, you know, where it started, but then this is where it started. But then it's really about putting it into practice, putting it into practice for everyone. So today we hear a lot about diversity, equity and inclusion and a lot of leaders repeated and you don't always feel the fact that it's genuine for them. They're doing it because it is what is required today. So my first point is that it needs to be something that you truly believe in it and that you do genuinely. And I was in a meeting and our previous EMEA VP to three of us during a kickoff in Germany who was talking about diversity in Germany and the need to represent the society and patients and of hiring team members from different origins. And this was for me an important defining moment because I felt how much it was simplifying, but it meant for the organization to promote diversity in a country where dynamics are changing. And I think this is also what I was trying to do, is to create always an environment where I understood how we can represent society and patients and how we can leverage all the differences that we all bring to the to to work every day and allow people to bring their authentic self. We bring usually to work a polished self. We try to blend in. Sometimes we don't dare to be ourselves, sometimes we're afraid to be discriminated. So I think having all of this in mind and trying to create an environment where everyone can bring their authentic self makes the whole difference. This is easier said than done, but to be able to do it, you can do a lot of things. So I can say in the past we worked on women networks and in different parts of the world and their initiatives for women by women to allow them to develop and feel empowered. Today within Teruma, I'm chairing the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Council at the European level working with other senior leadership and team members so that we continue to be inclusive and we allow employees to be who they want to be. But more importantly also is that we have started work on employee resource groups because the answer is also with the with the employees and them getting organized in the way they would like to and telling the company how they would like the the company to operate so that they feel included that they feel the sense of belonging. And that's really where it starts to to to go faster and where the progress is is exponential. And of course HR processes need to support all those DNI of efforts at all stages from hiring to development to promotion to retention. And my strong belief is that Kpi's need to be set to see through progress. You may remember during our Medtronic times, there was this 40% in women in leadership and what when this KPI was set, this is where we started to see through progress. So there are people who believe in quotas, people who don't. I'm not sure where I stand, but I can say that this is what I witnessed at that time. Without this quota progress was not made. So now I talked just about women, but it could be any type of diversity and KPIs in my opinion need to be set. So, Haddad, you have more than I think 30 years of experience in the Metech industry. So you're looking maybe a little bit more at the future. What are some of the key trends and developments that you see shaping the healthcare industry in the next five years? And how you're preparing your teams and organizations at Tehumo to stay ahead of the curve and embrace these trends? For Ben, there are a lot of trends and development that are happening, but I will talk mainly maybe about two of them. And they are hitting all of us and we're all trying to respond and learn and learn fast because they are coming at the at the fast pace. The first one I will talk to is maybe digital, digital AI, robotics, I'll put them all in one bucket, but the whole industry is changing and we can look at it across the whole patient pathway. It starts with patient empowerment, big data, genome beyond data that will allow diagnostics and prevention to take a leap. We can talk about AI enabled clinical decision support systems for our physicians, awareness building for patients and all the PERI, pre, peri and post procedural changes as well as the remote monitoring post procedure. So I think what's very important there is to to get structured and organized to be able to address those those trends. And specifically for digital for example at the room we have a digital transformation office that reports into the CEO responsible for coordinating all the different digital initiatives. So being a strong believer myself in digital health, I'm also working with the teams towards business development in that space and I'm hoping that this will start generating revenue already in this fiscal year. It will take longer time to become steady revenue generation. Monetization is one of the most critical points, but that's one thing. We're also digitizing in our systems for efficiency, adding sales and marketing enablement tools, working around, digitizing processes in operations, supply chain. So there are a lot of initiatives and all can contribute to this direction to go towards digital technology enablement and that's one of the main trends that I can talk to. We've also started training programs where we are all learning all those terms, Internet of Things, AI, ML, you know, deep learning, natural language processing, generative AI. I think all of us have tried ChatGPT, but so all of this learning is very important for all of us and I think that's also part of how to react to this change in our environment. Another important development for me is sustainability and we need to truly act towards a sustainable planet. We all know that and it has never been so urgent. My daughter reminds me every day that we're not leaving them the planet that they would like to have. So I hope that we as industry will have the ability to invest where it truly brings impact. And there I see a risk that regulations are going so quick that they might not be set according to where we could truly bring impact. So a real dialogue will be needed between the industry and the trade associations and EU commissions and regulators to be able to reach this result and bring sustainability where it should be while using our resources in the right way. So that's maybe a second plan that I can talk to. That's quite a full program, but clearly also you know we are in the. Environment which is changing fast and it's about adapting, learning and discovering. Also I would like now to switch to the wonderful signature section of podcast which is about the behind the scene where we have the opportunity to discover in addition of the strong business leader who is the woman with the person behind the all that we've discussed. And the first question is about. You're a successful business leader. You're also a happy mother and or you're balancing your personal and professional lives. I would have wished that you wouldn't answer. Ask me this question Greg, because the answer is not so well. I think I do what I can. I always have the feeling that I don't give enough time to my daughter, to my husband, but I tell myself at the same time that I giving my daughter a good example of what a hard working mom who wants to impact the world positively can be doing. But I also try to protect some time with the family, whether in the evenings when I work from home or for the vacation time that we have together. So I know that they need it, I know that I need it as well and I try to do my best there. But the balance is certainly towards professional life today and at the end. Without the support of my husband and daughter, I wouldn't be able to be successful in my job. So I really feel grateful to them for their love and support. And I also know that it means some sacrifice for them as well. And thanks for sharing openly about that. It's helping a lot also to know that everybody's trying to do the best and again, being authentic and that is helping us and our audience. You would like to switch to another one and going back in the past where you were a child or was your childhood has influenced your life of today and your professional life. Look at home with my parents. It was all about education, knowledge and discipline. And this party came from my grandmother who lived with us. She was a very strong woman. She lost her husband, unfortunately, due to the health, health reasons, and she had six children at young age and she made it happen all by herself. So in she ingrained in me and my three siblings the sense of responsibility for her. That was it, you know. Everything else could wait, but you needed to be responsible. And that always gave me the willingness to have higher and bigger responsibility. And then education, hard work and discipline were the main directions. But there was one more direction, which was that we were also encouraged to go against the tide and think for ourselves, using our critical thinking. We were always asked to challenge the status quo, so we were respectful of the traditions. This really always was part of the family as well, but we were told not to apply traditions. I exclosed. And you know, the the most awful thing within the family was that anyone of us would be a partnership that was totally unacceptable. So I think this these were some of the things that impacted who I became as a professional. And if you're coming back in the current time, any books then you would like to recommend to us, the audience, what's your favorite book or I have a lot of favorite books, but I think instead of giving a favorite book, I will maybe recommend something that I recently watched. I've recently watched the AI Dilemma on YouTube and it gave me a different perspective on AI. You know, I'm originally a software engineer and my time, so 30 years ago it was about digital imaging and AI. It was a completely different definition to AI at that time. So I've always been a very strong tech enthusiast and adopter. But with AI today, I feel the need to understand better and to have clarity around the ethics and future implications of AI. And I think it's crucial for us to ask ourselves those questions. And in this AI dilemma, some of those questions are being asked, so I think it's useful to listen to it. And less question for the behind the scene. It's about who has been inspiring you, who has been a role model, somebody you want to share with us. Sure. And. And maybe I will be a little bit like it. It won't be very inspiring, maybe for others, but I will talk about my father, because at one point in time we had a very important moment in our life. The war was getting heated and we were deciding if we should leave the country or not. And my father asked us to do a family council to discuss altogether whether we should leave or stay. And everyone from the family, from the age of five to the age of 75, had an equal right to give their opinion, to give their perspective, to be listened to. And after all this listening, the decision was taken altogether. And that day I learned what inclusion truly was. So that's why I want to repeat maybe this part and this episode of my life. I think I also learned a lot from him That translates to the business world. He always puts himself 2nd and catered to everyone else's needs, and for me this is about taking care of the team first. He also told me to be always curious of everything. He used to say that the more he learns, the more he realizes that there's more to learn and that he knew so little. So all my professional choices were about learning more and learning something new. So that's maybe my sharing of today. Thank you very much Hada, for sharing this and for all our conversation which was extremely inspiring as we expected and interesting. Thank you for taking time away from your family on this weekend today. This is really appreciated. So we're going to give you back to your daughter and husband now. Really big, big. Thank you, Hada. And big thank you to both of you, Greg and Fabian. I think what you're doing with this marketing consultation channel is gonna bring so much to so many people that I feel very grateful for everything you're doing. And I'm also very grateful to be part of it. But mostly I'm listening to each and every episode and learning so much. So thank you for this amazing initiative. Thank you, Hada. And to our audience, if you would like to get in touch with Hada and ask her some questions, you can reach out to her on or LinkedIn profile. And then bring us to the end of today's episode. We hope you found this discussion informative and insightful. We encourage you to continue the conversation and stay connected with us on LinkedIn and Instagram at the Marketing Consultation. If you have any question or topics you would like us to cover in the future episode, please do not hesitate to reach out. We need your help to grow the marketing consultation community and have more healthcare marketers benefiting from the experience. And advice of our speaker, please feel free to share with your network and also to give us a 5 star rating on Apple podcast. This is super important to increase our visibility. Thanks again for listening and we look forward to bringing you more insight and ID from top healthcare leaders in our next episode.